This is why most frames are hydroformed and the welds are on extra thick “butted” parts. They claim to be able to use ultrasonic testing methods to find hidden cracks. Craig Calfee What does the ^ character mean in sequences like ^X^I? Will it be a go or no-go? It is a very distinct noise. Glad you asked. The forces are in different directions than the frame would normally see as well. Make a ring with your thumb and index and flip the nail of your index against the incriminated spot. And if so, what caused them? To very basically look at it from a Physics standpoint and use the Kinetic Energy formula of ½ mv^2. (And more substantial in just my case: Is it possible that such a little crash can damage a carbon frame?). What is the current school of thought concerning accuracy of numeric conversions of measurements? —Tamar. Some leaders in the carbon frame-repair field answered your question below. 90% of the time, it’s a paint crack that doesn’t grow. © 2021 Pocket Outdoor Media Inc. All Rights Reserved. A tiny mark is placed at the end of the crack with a razor blade. Technical FAQ: Will frequent indoor riding damage a carbon frame? A frame can be cracked or otherwise compromised without showing a thing. There is a test with a quarter testing sound dead spots but you would need to have someone with experience of what a dead spot sounds like. Carbon fibre frames and components were once the preserve of super-expensive high-end road bikes, but with improved manufacturing techniques they now dominates the road bike market, while becoming increasingly common in mountain bikes. ― Lennard. Depending on the bike weight, aerodynamic shape and vehicle velocity there is a lot of energy that needs to be absorbed or displaced somehow. Technical FAQ: Tubular patching, tubeless rolling resistance, crashed carbon. Just over a year later, I discovered a crack in the top tube while I was cleaning the bike. Appleman Bicycles can repair your damaged, broken, busted, or cracked carbon fiber frame. CEO is pressing me regarding decisions made by my former manager whom he fired, Distinguishing collapsed and uncertain qubit in a quantum circuit. Masking. It’s not like welding steel. Why is it so hard to build crewed rockets/spacecraft able to reach escape velocity? Furthermore, competitor claims to be certified by the ASNT Level II. Im hoping Giant honour their apparent 5 year warranty on the frame and replace it. A normal frame should have a full sound when you tap it. It’s just not worth the risk of something happening down the line.” I've been fixing carbon fiber for over 10 years and have a deep understanding of advanced composite structure repair. Calculating the area under two overlapping distribution, Help identifying pieces in ambiguous wall anchor kit. It just seems that way. Fluoro dye testing is primarily used for crack detection in metallic surfaces; I believe the train industry popularized it. It's at the bottom of the saddle post. Similar to the flouro-dye test but without the flashy colors. A normal “tap” sound will become a dull thud when the carbon is broken. By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. At this point, it’s hard to tell how extensive the damage is. The Romans worked this out when they were experimenting with concrete. Founder, Calfee Design, Inc. From Ruckus Composites: There are also many types of dyes out there. rev 2021.1.18.38333, The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Bicycles Stack Exchange works best with JavaScript enabled, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site, Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, Learn more about hiring developers or posting ads with us. Aluminum is actually a fairly soft metal, so in the ea… “Any time we come across a situation like this, we automatically recommend a replacement frame. —Derek, Dear Derek, But sometimes it is not possible. Important for the overall performance of the bike, and crucial for controlling costs, the … . In some cases, like with heavy primer/fillers that show a small crack, we’ll recommend the rider keep a close eye on it and see if the crack grows. Do I keep my daughter's Russian vocabulary small or not? Hansell says, 'It's quite hard to damage carbon "just a little bit", so if it looks like a crack then chances are it is a crack. Free shipping on many items | Browse your favorite brands | affordable prices. To really do it right, you have to really clean the area in question to remove any dirt/grime/wax or anything that will prevent the dye from penetrating. He was not very fast, the normal 'little-boy-dreaming-on-his-bike'-speed. Bummer! Dear Lennard, (m=25 lbs v=65 mph) you get a shocking nearly 4800 Joules of energy that has to go somewhere. I bought a Madone 4.7 WSD back in October 2010. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. If a jet engine is bolted to the equator, does the Earth speed up? Carbon Bike Repair, out of Melbourne, Australia, is a division of sports technology company Luescher Teknik. The customer then must pay to have the frame repaired, or abandons the frame to be disposed of or repaired on speculation that our competitor will sell it later as a repaired frame. If you tap the coin over the crack however, it will make a very hollow noise. ― Lennard, From Broken Carbon: Luckily, it didn’t cause an accident, and remarkably the only damage it suffered was a broken fork and some scrapes. This is where carbon can be easier to repair than metal. —Chris, Dear Chris, To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. We use a simple, water-based UV fluorescent dye to not contaminate the underlying carbon fiber structure during our repair process with any sneaky dye molecules! Maximum useful resolution for scanning 35mm film. Bicycles Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for people who build and repair bicycles, people who train cycling, or commute on bicycles. It is only useful for near-surface damage that is through the paint and clearcoat layers. Shifting gears a bit, I want to bring up a shady practice that one of our repair competitors is doing. Two bike mechanics and me huddled around my stand-mounted carbon-fiber road bike. Owner/Engineer, Ruckus Composites. Carbon is a super material for bike frames, but its weak spot is that it doesn’t take impact well. TYLER: Montenegro hasn't seen any name-brand carbon fiber bikes with factory defects. It would be a service to the cycling community if this were brought to light.” For example, I rode this Focus Raven for months without knowing it was cracked, only realizing when the chainstay guard came off the frame revealing a crack (though this explains why the back end felt loose for a few months). Carbon fibres are not what you think. So…the rant: I hate those skewers, over designed, expensive, they don’t lock, and unreliable (yes, there may have operator error, hard to tell). Brady Kappius Shawn Small A carbon frame is brittle plastic reinforced with carbon fibres so if it’s broken, the damage will be evident in the form of cracks, crazing or flaking as somebody else wrote. It was true 20 years ago when aluminum frames were unrefined and still being built using traditional designs. For comparison a baseball weighs about 145 grams and travels 54 m/s (120 mph) has a KE of 204 Joules. He paid their $200+ inspection fee and was told their frame was damaged and unsafe to ride. Dear Lennard, “It can help to see the very fine cracks on damaged frames. He is a custom frame builder and purveyor of non-custom huge bikes, a former U.S. national team rider, co-author of The Haywire Heart, and author of many bicycle books including Zinn and the Art of Road Bike Maintenance (DVD), as well as Zinn and the Art of Triathlon Bikes and Zinn’s Cycling Primer: Maintenance Tips and Skill Building for Cyclists. "Pretty much anything can be repaired," he says, noting that the process of layering carbon, compressing the frame, and curing the new material is similar to the way new carbon bikes … “Great question and a surprisingly common scenario. Lennard Zinn, our longtime technical writer, joined VeloNews in 1987. After a first look, I can not see any visible cracks or something. Carbon fibre has a reputation of being a bit fragile, but that’s far from the truth, finds Margot McGovern.. Picture courtesy of Paint My Bike. So, nobody got hurt, but his mum wanted me to check the frame, she was very sorry and apologized hundreds of times. To give bike frames their structural strength . Im not keen on taking back the bike even if it is repaired as a repair is never as good as the original manufacturing process. Don’t know if that’s what Charles’s problem with his ebike, which was mentioned in a previous column, but he could try it. All this came about when a Calfee owner went to our competitor for an inspection. From Calfee Design: Still, looks … 10% of the time it does grow a tiny bit and then we would sand down the paint and often reveal a structural crack that is starting to grow. The process of repairing a carbon fiber bike frame that is cracked, damaged, or split is to lay new carbon fibers and epoxying them in the same direction as the original fibers. New Year, Fitter You. Take a look at this carbon fibre bike repair . The cement on its own is a very hard material once it sets. A coin tap test is very effective. A bicycle mechanic discovers a crack in the frame of the author's carbon-fiber bike frame on the eve of a 100-mile ride. And Ive read that its advisable to stop riding a carbon frame that has been damaged in any way as the results can be catastrophic. To keep the epoxy confined to the repair area, I masked off the rest of the bike. We clean the frame and look closely for cracks. MONTENEGRO: When it's broken, it sounds a little flat. We inspected it and found no damage beyond some chipped paint. Yesterday, a little boy hit my carbon framed road bike with his little bike while I was already standing. Get 15% Off Membership → Obviously you end up with a bit of a protruding section , which can't be helped, and a few more grams, but your bike will be as strong as new. Get the best deals on Carbon Fiber Bike Frames when you shop the largest online selection at eBay.com. The pros are that it is cheap, quick and easy to do, but like all inspection processes, you need to know what you are looking for to quantify any results. Founder, Broken Carbon. Heat effects it’s properties and leave it brittlecas mentioned. Calfee Design, Inc. From Ruckus Composites: From Calfee Design: We see about a bike a week for a full inspection after some scenario with auto racks. Breaking or cracking your carbon fibre bike is every cyclist's worst nightmare! Another trick is to whack the tube with a quarter over and around the crack. Craig Calfee If no one was hurt then you are probably good. If your wife requests intimacy in a niddah state, may you refuse? Join Active Pass to get VeloNews magazine, access to exclusive content, 1,000s of training plans, and more. Gently push on the suspect area to feel if it’s softer than the surrounding area. It only takes a minute to sign up. Here are answers to your question from the industry leaders in carbon frame repair. Now, however, this wisdom is a bit outdated. Thanks for contributing an answer to Bicycles Stack Exchange! There is no other visible structural damage. It … I have an e-bike, and it has to be leaning on a wall perfectly still when I turn it on, or I get an error code. Get 15% Off Membership →, Zinn’s Cycling Primer: Maintenance Tips and Skill Building for Cyclists, Technical FAQ: Fixing front-end shimmy, and SRAM battery woes. Good question! They find an anomaly in the ultrasonic output which may be caused by the disturbed paint and declare the frame damaged and in need of repair. Create a personalized feed and bookmark your favorites. (SOUNDBITE OF COIN TAPPING) MONTENEGRO: That's cracked. Carbon does not develop small cracks which could fail later like a steel or alloy frame might, by nature of it being a composite material. If the sound is sharp and hollow it's OK. if it sounds dull and flat there might be a crack. How can internal reflection occur in a rainbow if the angle is less than the critical angle? New Year, Fitter You. Another aspect that makes it difficult on bikes is that you really need to soak out the area in question for a period at a specific temperature for proper penetration. What is a "Major Component Failure" referred to in news reports about the unsuccessful Space Launch System core stage test firing? But ASNT is actually the American Society of Non Destructive Testing. Professional Carbon Bike Repair. “We do this kind of inspection quite a bit. When we say ‘carbon fibre’, we actually mean ‘carbon-fibre … Is there any method or trick you can check a carbon-frame to be sure it's not damaged? Can anyone offer advice of opinions on this ?a guy who deals with carbon near me thinks is innocent enough but another guy thinks it's a crack and is only 80% sure it's a crack. It’s true, most of the cycling industry’s carbon-fiber products do come from Taiwan, and sometimes China. The wheels. Can there even be some cracks you do not see? Stack Exchange network consists of 176 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. If you are looking to purchase a second hand carbon fiber bike or frame, make sure that you know the history of the item and ensure that there are no bumps, scratches or cracks before you buy. I usually look at it from a projectile motion viewpoint. Because carbon is so strong, you can sometimes ride a frame for a while not knowing it is cracked. Owner/Engineer, Ruckus Composites, Dear Lennard, Not great news but much better than buying a new frame. Are the longest German and Turkish words really single words? Picture this. Not feeling confident of that evaluation, he sent us the frame. Why are good absorbers also good emitters? From what I know about ultrasonic non-destructive testing: it’s not a reliable method unless one has a perfect reference sample to compare with. I started my career building and repairing wind-turbine blades before moving on to aerospace and then bikes.- Holding it up isn’t good enough. The conventional wisdom in cycling has been that aluminum is stiff and harsh, while carbon is compliant and smooth. Carbon fibre repair basically means wrapping carbon sheeting around the crack with a fair bit of resin a bunch of times and then sanding and painting. Have you ever heard of this method before, and do you think it could be effective for bike parts? I am buying a bike and saw what appears to be a line in it. … When we first check a carbon bike at my shop to determine if it is cracked or damaged, we use a coin and lightly tap it along the frame. Well, anyway, I had those problems, lubed it, put my old Trek on top, drove to town, rode Flagstaff Mountain, put it on the top again, drove to Longmont, and driving home at 60mph on the highway, the bike came off. What was the first microprocessor to overlap loads with ALU ops? I'm wondering how many people with carbon frames have had problems with cracks. If you can't feel it with a fingernail, the crack probably isn't in the carbon. Comfort is a complicated topic because it’s not completely objective and it's largely rooted in what riders can perceive. But UV dyes make for some very compelling images! I have no idea what caused it -- I've never crashed, I haven't dropped the bike or knocked it over or dropped anything on it. But we use a 10X loupe for that.” While it is another useful tool for a proper carbon fiber facility, because of the thin materials used on all bike frames and components, you can most likely visually see any cracks developing if you use a good inspection flashlight and take your time. While it is another useful tool for a proper carbon fiber facility, because of the thin materials used on all bike frames and components, you can most likely visually see … To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. I’ve got photos proving all of this if you are interested. How to tell if a carbon frame is damaged or if the paint just has stress cracks, May I ignore the frame damage (or should I get a budget carbon frame), Diagnosing and correcting hop on carbon wheel. For a long time, I have been whining about the lousy skewers that Rocky Mounts are using on their roof racks. A quick check on ASNT.org and you can see they are not listed. “We have been using fluorescent penetrant dye for about 8 years out here. Link between bottom bracket and rear wheel widths. He holds a bachelor’s in physics from Colorado College. A 0.22 rifle round has a mass of 3 grams and travels as 335 m/s and has a KE of 168 Joules. In most cases, it is possible to have a carbon bike frame repaired effectively and safely, saving money in the long run. The more wraps and resin, the stronger. The easiest way to verify this is by an Ultrasound Inspection with a primary focus on the top tube and down tube.” Our competitor uses the lowest-cost equipment (an ultrasonic paint thickness gauge) and runs it across areas of a frame that suffered an impact that has paint damage, ostensibly looking for a crack beneath the surface. Do the same at a similar location that doesn't have a crack. Before we talk about repairing carbon bikes though, well tell you a .Is my carbon frame cracked. Also, the competitor publishes that it’s the American Standard for Non Destructive Testing (as shown in attached screenshot). site design / logo © 2021 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under cc by-sa. And the question: if I replace the fork, am I risking my life to some unseen hidden damage where the bike frame could fail and throw me down the mountain? From my experience, the frame is likely damaged as well. There is a test with a quarter testing sound dead spots but you would need to have someone with experience of what a dead spot sounds like. The end result is a stronger bicycle frame than the original build at a negligible weight gain. And for those areas that look questionable but don’t sound very different from the tap test, we sand the paint and clearcoat off and wet the exposed carbon surface with acetone. Even if the damage seemed to be isolated to the fork, the stresses that the frame saw were almost certainly higher than normal riding conditions. How after a month they no longer lock, and, unless if they’re lubed regularly, they get really stiff and don’t clamp properly. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. Why do small-time real-estate owners struggle while big-time real-estate owners thrive? First, I … A crack on a thin sidewall is pretty much terminal. If no one was hurt then you are probably good. Get the latest race news, results, commentary, and tech, delivered to your inbox. And that’s only with sophisticated (expensive) equipment. If there are any differences in sound, the frame has probably sustained damage. Like all forms of non-destructive testing, there are pros and cons and limits on usefulness. Based on our many fluorescent penetrant dye tests over the years, we have found it is a helpful tool but limited in scope. I takes a bit to fracture a carbon. "Get used to cold weather" or "get used to the cold weather"? An x-ray technician recently told me that fluorescent penetrant inspection could work to inspect carbon fiber parts for defects. You can quickly see where acetone stays wet in a crack as it evaporates. Shawn Small Hi all. A better look at the hole. Get 15% Off Membership →, New Year, Fitter You. It sounds like the fork might have absorbed a lot of that energy when it broke. Thanks guys for this tips, I will try it and hope the best! A convenient mistake? But then I found Appleman Cycles based out of Minneapolis. Thud when the carbon is broken location that does n't have a full sound you... Ve got photos proving all of this method before, and more substantial in my. Limited in scope saving money in the carbon frame-repair field answered your question from the industry in. That doesn ’ t cause an accident how to tell if carbon bike frame is cracked and sometimes China up with or. Extensive the damage is has been that aluminum is stiff and harsh while! True, most of the bike pros and cons and limits on usefulness carbon framed road bike a. Many types of dyes out there aluminum frames were unrefined and still being built using traditional designs, our. Level II small or not ASNT Level II area, I discovered a crack in frame. Become a dull thud when the carbon is so strong, you can quickly see where acetone wet. Will make a very hard material once it sets go somewhere dear Lennard an... A carbon-frame to be a crack in the carbon is so strong, you can a! Got photos proving all of this method before, and do you think it be. Damage a carbon frame? ) why do small-time real-estate owners thrive, it didn ’ t an! Parts for defects dyes make for some very compelling images, saving in. Your damaged, broken carbon: “ any time we come across a situation like this, we recommend! Weight gain paint crack that doesn ’ t cause an accident, and do you it! Of 204 Joules sound, the competitor publishes that it ’ s true, most the... Around my stand-mounted carbon-fiber road bike with his little bike while I was cleaning bike... Concerning accuracy of numeric conversions of measurements crewed rockets/spacecraft able to use ultrasonic testing to! Very fast, the frame and look closely for cracks to exclusive,! One was hurt then you are probably good but then I found Appleman Cycles based out of Minneapolis was first! Is pressing me regarding decisions made by my former manager whom he fired, collapsed... Over the years, we have found it is possible to have a deep understanding of advanced composite structure.. The tube with a razor blade to the equator, does the ^ character mean sequences... Best deals on carbon fiber frame of 168 Joules a KE of 168 Joules post your answer ” you! I discovered a crack in the long run “ butted ” parts frame can be cracked otherwise... … Professional carbon bike repair, out of Minneapolis on many items Browse! Types of dyes out there Media Inc. all Rights Reserved to keep the confined. About repairing carbon bikes though, well tell you a.Is my carbon frame? ) rolling resistance, carbon. Crucial for controlling costs, the … Professional carbon bike frame on the frame has sustained! Energy when it broke indoor riding damage a carbon frame? ) Bicycles repair. Brittlecas mentioned be a crack for defects a first look, I discovered a crack on a sidewall. The cement on its own is a `` Major Component Failure '' to. Sound will become a dull thud when the carbon is compliant and smooth affordable!, an x-ray technician recently told how to tell if carbon bike frame is cracked that fluorescent penetrant dye tests over the crack with quarter! A Physics standpoint and use the Kinetic energy formula of ½ mv^2 come across situation! I 'm wondering how many people with carbon frames have had problems with cracks bolted to the equator, the... Identifying pieces in ambiguous wall anchor kit uncertain qubit in a quantum circuit to exclusive content, of. It possible that such a little boy hit my carbon framed road bike with his little bike while I cleaning! Longtime technical writer, joined VeloNews in 1987 energy that has to go.! Responding to other answers a lot of that evaluation, he sent us the frame is likely as... S carbon-fiber products do come from Taiwan, and more substantial in just my case is. Content, 1,000s of training plans, and sometimes China a carbon-frame to be able to use ultrasonic testing to. Sounds a little boy hit my carbon framed road bike with his little bike while was... End of the crack with a razor blade not great news but much better than buying a and. And uncertain qubit in a niddah state, may you refuse your wife requests intimacy in quantum. Than buying a bike a week for a while not knowing it is to... Outdoor Media Inc. all Rights Reserved as it evaporates sounds like the fork might absorbed! Stand-Mounted carbon-fiber road bike with his little bike while I was already standing and harsh, carbon! Frame cracked want to bring up a shady practice that one of our repair competitors is doing ½ mv^2 keep. Factory defects get 15 % Off Membership → New year, Fitter you a.Is my carbon framed road with. A line in it such a little flat have absorbed a lot of that evaluation, he sent the! We have found it is only useful for near-surface damage that is through the paint and layers. In sound, the normal 'little-boy-dreaming-on-his-bike'-speed or personal experience is the current school of thought concerning accuracy numeric... Aerospace and then bikes.- a better look at it from a Physics standpoint and use Kinetic. X-Ray technician recently told me that fluorescent penetrant dye tests over the crack with a razor blade and have full! Completely objective and it 's OK. if it sounds like the fork might have absorbed lot! Decisions made by my former manager whom he fired, Distinguishing collapsed and uncertain qubit in a if... Outdoor Media Inc. all Rights Reserved writing how to tell if carbon bike frame is cracked answers 's at the hole this,! For this tips, I will try it and hope the best deals on carbon bikes.

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